I just watched the MVM video with sound on and I have to say that maybe the reason the hard routes aren't going in is the free and easy attitude certain "pro" climbers have about nabbing other people's climbs. After talking with Andy at the Spot, my word to Joe and others who would like to coast along on other people's hard work--Is there any other phrase for bolting at Rifle?--is get on the stick and put in the effort and get the vision thing together. (Old school Rifle reference--props to Kurt Smith)
I've done a bunch of old projects around Boulder and nearly always got the bolter's permission except when it was obvious the route wasn't being worked on anymore or the equipper wasn't around. I've placed a fair number myself and all I can say is that climbing is way easier than bolting.
Andy, who by the way is going to college full-time, is probably investing 500 to 1000 bucks on these climbs, given time, parts and labor. Seems to me that climbers who have apparently nothing to do but climb for the camera should saddle up and get to work on setting the standard and definitely not hassle those who actually have put in the effort. Andy take as long as you need on your project, which will probably be the hardest in the canyon. And Joe, chuck a lap on Grand Ole Opry (likely 14c)while you're waiting for Andy to get done.
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He had more to say about it on his blogsite too if you don't mind reading 1 long paragraph.
Key quote: "Closed projects were, and still are something we feel is degressive for rock climbing."
http://www.joekindkid.com/?p=405
I think the huge amount of time, effort and money required to develop a hard new route has to be one of the major factors why there are not more.
I should add that's Andy Raether I'm talking about.
I read Joe's comments and they are pretty weak. Whatever "degressive" means, I doubt that Andy asking others to hold off while he finishes a personal goal is going to hurt the sport too much. While Joe and Dave were bumming about the rain in the RRG, Andy was going to classes at Metro State and working at the Spot.
Dave especially had Ward Smith do most of the heavy lifting at Rumney. Heck,I installed a bolt at the Primo Wall at Joe's request. Making it sound like Andy's being selfish is total BS.
I still trying to figure out "degressive" myself.
there was also the issue of when kinder repeated Kuru and the first things he had to say was how it was "40% manufactured" like that was something Andy had anything to do with.
good thing there are no more bouldering projects around anymore so that we don't need to worry about these 'issues'...
but, if you happen to see someone with dementia chained to a rock anywhere in the frontrange, be sure that my red tag has been placed.... RESPECT MY PROJECTS !!!
i do believe there should be a statute of limitations with respect to a closed project, whether by rope or not. one year seems resonable. if a route, subsequent efforts that yield the FA should involve re-payment of the equipment cost, including any fixed gear and bits burned out.
the sweat equity of the bolting party was his or her gift to the climbing community and the cost of the hands-off status for one fiscal year.
perhaps every red tag should have bolting date and the cost of equipement posted. full disclosure. if you want to buy in for the FA, then be ready to ante up.
that's my two cents.
I think the bottom line in this specific case is this:
Had Andy not done the work to bolt the route in question, there wouldn't even be a closed project for Joe to gripe about.
UH OH...somebody call the whaambulance.
I would probably extend the closing period to two climbing seasons max--at that point you probably know if you bit off more than you can chew. If you have chipped or otherwise manipulated the climb to suit you, the tag immediately comes off, which was the case with Primeval in Clear Creek.
1 but maybe 2 years seems appropriate at the upper echelon. After having established a few routes in WV and CA, mad respect should be given and Joe's gripes shouldn't have been aired so publicly or directly at Andy.
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